Where To Find Nate
Mentions in this episodeBecoming Your Own Banker by Nelson Nash
Life, Success, and Legacy podcast
Show Transcript [00:00:00] Nate: So the fundamental principle of infinite banking is the fact that you finance everything in your life, whether you’re paying cash for it or not. So you are financing everything in your life, whether you’re paying cash for it or not. [00:00:13] Mike: Welcome to the 2 cent Dad podcast, where we interview dads to discuss their journeys of intentional fatherhood while doing work they care about and living a life of purpose. I’m your host, Mike Sudyk. [00:00:31] You probably contribute to a 401K or an IRA or some other investment account to save for your retirement. That’s normal. Well, today’s guest, Nate Dean, is gonna talk about a concept called the infinite banking concept, and it flips things kind of on its head. When you talk about retirement, when you talk about saving, when you talk about financing, vehicles, cars, that sort of thing, and super interesting [00:01:00] concept that he talks about, and I think we’ll find a lot of value in as you think about retirement, especially as you think about how to prepare yourself and your family for your generation and the next generation. So let’s jump into the interview with Nate. All right. [00:01:15] Well, today on the show we have Mr. Nate Dean, who is president of Unlimited Life Concepts, and I’m excited to have him. He’s also a father of four, so that qualifies him to be on the 2 Cent Dad podcast. But he’s gonna talk to us about becoming your own bank, which we’ll expand upon later. [00:01:32] But thanks for having, Thanks for being on the show here, Nate. [00:01:35] Nate: Thanks for having me, brother. Looking forward to it. [00:01:37] Mike: Yeah, we’re, I’m real excited, man. This. You, I met you on Twitter and, um, we, you were talking all about this weird, you know, concept called infinite banking. And I’m like, What is this? And then I got the book. [00:01:51] And now I really wanted to just hear, I wanted you to, to, to talk about this concept with. The people that I, you know, my audience, even though my audience isn’t [00:02:00] huge, because I would talk to people in just, you know, I’d be at an event and we’d be talking about, you know, infinite banking and no one knew what it really was. [00:02:08] And so, um, I’m like, no, this guy on Twitter, he’s banned by Dave Ramsey. He tell me I could be in my own bank. And I got his book. So, so anyways, yeah. Sorry, we’re jumping a little bit too far ahead, but, um, Nate’s joining us from Texas. He’s got four kids. What are the ages of your kids? [00:02:24] Nate: They are 18. My two boys are 18 and 15. [00:02:27] My two girls are nine and 12. They’re all three years apart. . [00:02:32] Mike: Awesome. Very cool. So he, you know, you’re very precise person. I can see then Nate, so that’s awesome. . Um, well, Nate, why, why don’t you, um, you, you run a, a company called Unlimited Life Concepts. Just pros, which really they, you, you’re helping people, you know, with financial freedom, with, um, you know, actually becoming their own bank, which, can you just tell me a little bit, like, give us the pitch of unlimited life concepts. [00:02:59] Actually maybe [00:03:00] back up and give us the pre the backstory of how you got to where you’re doing. Cuz I know you did, you did a lot of stuff before this too, so, [00:03:06] Nate: Yeah. So, um, I have a ministry background. Uh, I’ve done youth and music ministry and even pastor to church for a few years. Um, and the entire time I’ve been in ministry, I’ve always been by vocational. [00:03:21] I’ve always worked in smaller churches that couldn’t afford a full time position. And so I’ve always done something else on the side to support my family, make sure they get fed, uh, six people in a house. We go through a lot of food . Um, so, uh, I have, uh, done various things. I, I, I was a general manager at a coffee and bakery cafe chain. [00:03:48] Um, down here. So that’s one thing that I’ve done in the past. I worked for my dad for several years and he had an athletic shoe store. So growing up [00:04:00] I was in the shoe. My, I, I’ve been in the shoe business my entire life, basically. Um, he had an athletic shoe store, kinda like a Footlocker, so we did Nikes and Jordans and all that stuff. [00:04:11] So growing up I had, I always had the, the latest Jordans or Air Maxes or something like that. So that was kind of cool. Um, but it, it was a small business. It was one, one location in a small town, so it wasn’t like we were rolling by any means. But we were middle class. Um, , but I’d always, my dad was my hero. [00:04:36] I always wanted to be like him, always thought I wanna, I wanna own my own business one day. Uh, because I saw the freedom and the flexibility that he had created for his life, where for me and my brother, I mean, he showed up to everything that we did, uh, because he could. So I wanted the same thing for my family. [00:04:54] I wanted to be able to be there for my family. So, I’ve done various things along the way, and I [00:05:00] knew that one day that I would, I would own a business and that business would support us. I never knew what that was gonna be, but I just, I just knew that one day I was, I was searching and striving for that freedom that my dad had created for himself. [00:05:14] So, um, it was late 2017 when I came across this book called Becoming Your Own Banker and me and my business partner, who’s one of my best friends, Brandon, we grew up together and we were accountability partners at the time, just holding each other accountable in different areas of our lives. And we were, we were reading books together and things like that and came across this book Becoming Your Own Banker and having the Dave Ramsey background I had, having the Dave Ramey background that Brandon had, I knew that this was like totally against, you know, our, our thought processes, you know, all the conversations we’d had around money and everything like that. And [00:06:00] Brandon, would [00:06:01] Mike: You tell a story I know about Brandon and you said you guys were all on the Dave Ramsey train, right? Like you die hard and he was even more than you and you were kind like, Hey, I want, I want you wanted to give him that book or talk to him about the concept cuz you wanted him to kind of poke holes in it, right? [00:06:16] I mean that that’s, I remember you saying that either on another podcast or when we spoke, you know, a little bit ago. [00:06:22] Nate: Yeah, so Brandon was so hardcore, Dave Ramsey, that his wife called him DR sometimes in the house, you know, short for Dave Ramsey. Uh, from, from what I gathered, Brandon was a little bit of a budget Nazi. [00:06:36] Um, so, uh, anyways, yeah, you’re right. I, I read that book and I was like, Man, like I need to get somebody’s opinion on this that’s gonna tear it apart. . Mm-hmm. . And so I knew that if Brandon saw value in it, that there was definitely something there. Cuz when I read it, it’s only a 92 page book. It’s not very intimidating. [00:06:59] Uh, but when I read [00:07:00] it, I finished it the first time and went, “What the heck did I just read?” And so I had to go back and read it again. The second time I read it, like some stuff started clicking for me pretty quick. So when he got the book and, and came back and said, “Man, if this is real. This is crazy.” Some, somewhere along the, something to that effect, I was just like, “All right, we gotta figure out what’s going on with this.” [00:07:24] So, kind of put us on a journey. We, we started doing research, trying to figure out if it was real, who was doing it, who was having success with it, things like that. Once we came to the conclusion that, yeah, it’s. real People really are having success with it. The next step for us is, all right, well, how do we get started? [00:07:42] How do we apply this? And so we found this podcast called Life Success and Legacy, and it was these two guys, Mike Everett and Chris Bay, based outta Lawrence, Kansas. And their podcast was about infinite banking and combined at [00:08:00] that point, combined. They had about 15 years experience in teaching the infinite banking concept. [00:08:06] They were personally mentored by Nelson Nash, the creator of the concept. And their podcast was just very genuine. They were just very matter of fact in the conversation. They weren’t, It was obvious they weren’t trying to hype it up and make it something that it wasn’t. And we were really drawn to that. [00:08:24] And also the fact that they were both believers was really cool. So we had a lot of commonalities with them. Uh, even with their backgrounds, because Brandon was a middle school principal. Well, Chris Bay was an elementary school principal, uh, before he started teaching infinite banking. So they had that in common. [00:08:40] And part of my background was I had worked for State Farm doing home and auto insurance before. Well, Mike Everett had done home and auto insurance prior. So we had, uh, a lot of similarities in our backgrounds and things like that. And even our personalities were very similar. We just instantly [00:09:00] connected with them and they started teaching us and they got us set up with our policies and it was in the midst of us implementing those things for ourselves and everything that we were learning one day, Cuz Brandon and I were accountability partners. [00:09:15] So we talked a lot and our conversations just kept going back to infinite banking and just how blown away we were, how excited we were, all this stuff. So one day it was just like, Man, if we feel this good about what we’re doing, like wouldn’t it be cool to go teach other people how to do the same thing? Yeah. And he was like, Dude, I would love that because Brandon had already been teaching financial piece and counseling with couples and everything like that on the side. [00:09:40] Just because he was passionate about it. He wasn’t, he wasn’t doing it to make money or anything like that. He was just passionate about financial education and personal finance and things like. And helping people. And uh, so we told Mike and Chris, Hey, we’ve just been inspired by what y’all do, what y’all have done for us, and we [00:10:00] want to do the same thing. [00:10:01] And so they agreed to mentor us and they just poured into us for a couple of years as we were building our business. And then eventually one day we got on the phone with him and they’re like, Guys, we’re kicking y’all out of the nest. It’s time for your, it’s time for you to spread your wings, so to speak. And, uh, the rest is history. [00:10:18] And so, uh, yeah, we, our company, Unlimited Life Concepts, we started April, 2018, so we’re going on five years now. [00:10:26] Mike: That’s awesome. That’s really cool. So thanks for that background a little bit, Nate, about kinda how you got into it. Who got you excited about it, Now you kind of gotta go into what it is. Right. [00:10:36] And I, and I know that that is, So I read the book as well. I was the sa, I had the same thought process. It was like, Hey, if this is real, this is kind of, you know, crazy. You know, that this is something I’ve never heard about. I haven’t pulled the trigger on it yet, which something we gotta talk about maybe after this call, [00:10:57] Sure. But it’s, it, it’s, um, [00:11:00] yeah. I, I wonder if you could just kind of explain it and then, uh, you know, I’ll have some questions cuz I kind of wanna play the part of like, poking holes in it and see if you can, you can answer those questions. Try to, I’m gonna try to assume of like someone that’s listening to this, what questions they would have, Right. [00:11:14] So, Right. So with that, why don’t you get started? [00:11:17] Nate: Okay, so what it is, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll tell you what it is and then I’ll give you an, an analogy that you can sort of connect the dots with. So what it is is Nelson Nash, creator of the Infinite Banking concept, author of Becoming Your Own Banker. He figured out many, many years ago in the eighties that there was a way to properly structure a dividend paying whole life insurance policy to create your own private banking system, which. [00:11:44] Essentially, essentially like your own personal line of credit inside of this policy that earns interest even when you’re using it per other things in your life, which sounds really crazy. Yeah, so that’s the idea of becoming your own banker, is [00:12:00] establishing your own private banking system inside of this policy. [00:12:04] Now, the analogy that I use often because so many people understand real estate, you know, imagine that you have a piece of property, a real estate property. That you build equity inside of. Now, typically when you have equity inside of a property, you gotta jump through hoops with a bank in order to get access to that equity. [00:12:23] Um, but you don’t necessarily have to jump through hoops with a bank in order to get access to the equity in this scenario. So you’ve got access to the equity, uh, freely. You have the ability to leverage that equity, which means borrow against it so that you keep pressure and momentum on that money to continue to. [00:12:41] and then you can still go out and use it for other things in your life. So you can, um, leverage that equity to create your own private banking system, your own personal line of credit. And so that’s very similar to what Infinite Banking is. We’re using a dividend paying whole life insurance [00:13:00] policy. And the value of the real estate, if we’re connecting it back to a policy, is the death benefit on your policy. [00:13:11] That is the, that’s, that’s part of your future net worth. Just like anything else that we’re creating for ourselves one day that has to pass on to somebody else. Mm-hmm. . But as we’re paying money into our policy, we’re building equity or the cash value inside of the policy that we get to control, and that is the equity inside of an asset is the value of the asset that we actually take, have ownership of at that point. [00:13:38] That. It’s just what we have control of. It’s what is owed to us in the event, in the event that the asset is sold or something like that. Yeah. So, um, that’s kind of, that’s the easy way for me to sort of connect the dots, so to speak, as far as what it is and kind of how it works. [00:13:59] Mike: Yeah. [00:14:00] So you have this policy. [00:14:01] That you’re paying these, these, um, premiums into, right? But you’re, that then be creates a cash value. But there’s equity in the payoff, the death benefit. So say you have a hundred thousand dollars policy, there’s some equity there that you’re, that you’re able to leverage, but then you’re able to actually utilize the cash value. [00:14:22] Of the amount that you’ve actually paid in through dividends or through, um, premiums, Excuse me. Right? [00:14:28] Nate: Correct. Correct. [00:14:30] Mike: So then, um, Yes, go ahead. [00:14:33] Nate: Oh, I was just gonna say, so your premium deposits that you’re putting into your system is what creates the equity, kind of as you said earlier. And so, um, as those premiums go in, see, one of the switches that had to flip for us is when we’re talking about life insurance, when we hear the word premium. [00:14:52] We automatically associate that with a cost, right? That’s something that we’re giving up. Um, but in the infinite banking world, a premium [00:15:00] is a deposit into our system. Yeah. So where I used to cringe every time I had to pay for my life insurance premiums in the past. Now I get really excited about that because I know that what it’s creating for me now and what it’s gonna create for me in the future. [00:15:19] Mike: Yeah. So the alternative, So it’s interesting cuz when I read the book, I was kind of seeing it as an alternative to a long term investment in terms of like the alternative to an IRA or the, the alternative to like a 401k, which correct me here if I’m wrong, but it, it’s, it is, but it’s more than that. So it’s, it, it, it’s a, it’s also. [00:15:47] That’s like just one sliver of the whole bank aspect of it because you’re utilizing it for other instances. And when it kind of clicked for me when they talked about, you know, the, even just car insurance, like car [00:16:00] insurance, you can kind of utilize it in the same way you use car insurance because. You have all this equity in the case of an emergency that you could, you, you know, you could replace a vehicle. [00:16:09] So instead of paying all of these insurance premiums to a, an auto provider, you could actually pay it into your own policy and then you keep the money. It’s not a premium like you’re paying to the car insurance company, you’re paying a deposit into your system. And for me that kind of clicked. I was kind of like, Oh wow, that’s actually really interesting. [00:16:28] That’s where the deposit premium thing was different but, can you talk to like, like if someone like the, the pushback might be, Okay. Well maybe the what, what’s the percentage payoff? What’s the interest rate that I’m getting on this, you know, or, um, You know, if I can borrow money really cheaply to like buy a car from my bank, you know, does it even make it worth it to do it through like a, you know, a, a policy like you’re describing? [00:16:58] Like that’s, that would be [00:17:00] maybe some of the pushback, you know, that, that, that I would hear from people. [00:17:04] Nate: Well, and, and that is typical pushback from a lot of people because we are trained to want to know what the interest rate is. You know, we’re trained to borrow at the lowest amount and earn at the highest amount. [00:17:20] That’s what we’re trained to do. Um, but I actually can give you an example of how you can do the opposite of that and still come out on the positive side. Uh, and the example that I use, and you’ve, you’ve seen this, you’ve gone through the course, the videos and everything like that. The example that I use often is, and this. [00:17:40] Let me preface this with saying, this is just an example to show you what leverage is and how it can work to your advantage. I’m gonna use an example of a certificate of a of deposit at a bank, but we are actually taking control of that banking function ourselves. So let’s say, and I’m using these [00:18:00] specific numbers for a reason. [00:18:00] Let’s say that you go down to your, You saved up $30,000, you call. You’re like, Nate got 30 grand, got my car picked out, fixing a rundown. The dealership pick it up. And I’m like, Mike, so glad you did that, man. But don’t go straight to the dealership just yet because if you go pay cash for that car, your money is gone now. [00:18:19] You’re never gonna see it again. Yeah. But what if I could tell you that there’s a way to keep pressure, momentum on that money to continue to grow, even though you still can get your car the same day. So go down to your local bank, drop that money into a C, A CD certificate of. And let’s say for this example that they’re gonna pay you 4% interest on the cd. [00:18:39] Yeah. And then what I would tell you to do is turn right back around at that same bank and borrow $30,000 from the bank using your CDs collateral. That’s called a collateralized loan. That’s the safest loan that anyone can make because they are already holding. Mm-hmm. . So typically they’re gonna charge you maybe one and a half, [00:19:00] 2% over and above what they’re paying you on the cd. [00:19:02] So let’s say they’re gonna charge you 6%, so you’re gonna earn 4% and they’re gonna charge you 6%. These numbers sound completely backwards, but just stay with me. So let’s amortize that out over 48 months for the next four years, 30,000 to 6% over 48 months, you would have a monthly payment of 7 0 4 50. [00:19:25] Yeah. So after four years of making those payments back to the bank, you have paid the bank a total of $33,818, which means you paid $3,818 in interest. Yeah, but your, you used a collateralized loan. Your $30,000 sat in the CD and was compounding the entire time. So by the end of those four years, your CD is now worth $35,096. [00:19:54] Yeah, so you pay 3,818, but because of compounding you earn [00:20:00] 5,096. You actually ended up on the positive side of that equation and it didn’t have anything to do with the interest. Yeah, because we’re taught to borrow at the lowest and earn at the highest, but we just switched those and showed you how you can still come out on the positive. [00:20:16] So after four years of making those payments, not only do you have a car that’s completely paid, , but you also have 35 grand in cash. Yeah. How easy would it be to now go trade in or trade up for a new vehicle? Yeah, I mean, people get a new vehicle on average probably every four years anyways. [00:20:36] Mike: And alternatively, you would’ve paid that payment. [00:20:40] So you would have the, if it had 30 K just sitting around, you would’ve just paid that money. You would’ve paid that money and it wouldn’t have been doing anything. Right. Like, you know what I’m saying? Right. Like, [00:20:52] Nate: Now the, the argument sometimes is, well, when you pay cash, you don’t have a payment. You don’t [00:21:00] want a payment. [00:21:01] Yeah. But you’re always making payment. Like, okay, so the, so the fundamental principle of infinite banking is the fact that you finance everything in your life, whether you’re paying cash for it or not. [00:21:11] Mike: Thank you for listening to the 2 Cent Dad podcast. I wanted to take just one minute to tell you how this show is possible, and that is through my Business EC group. [00:21:21] We help software companies get more done by building them amazing developer teams. Now, those teams come alongside their in-house developers to help them build more and build faster. We are a purpose driven company, which means that we use our profits to help support non-profit work in the locations that we. [00:21:41] We operate in the US, in Michigan, and also in Chenai India. You can check us firstname.lastname@example.org. Again, that’s team with ec.com. So if you’re hiring software developers or you know someone that’s hiring software developers, check us out. Love to talk to you. That’s a big point. [00:22:00] [00:22:00] Say that again, [00:22:01] Nate: . So you are financing everything in your life, whether you’re paying cash for it or not, and that’s, it’s twofold. [00:22:08] Okay. So the first aspect of that is you’re always giving up interest. Um, when you’re borrowing, obviously you’re giving up interest, but even when you’re paying cash, you are giving up the interest that that money could have earned if it would’ve been in a better environment. Mm-hmm. . Now, the second aspect of that is you’re always making payments somewhere. [00:22:32] You’re either making payments to the bank or you’re making payments to yourself in a segments account or somewhere. For a future purchase. So money has to flow no matter what. It’s always gotta go somewhere. Yeah. So what we would say is if money’s gotta flow no matter what, why not use it to your advantage to build up a banking system that gives you certainty and control in your life that you wouldn’t have [00:23:00] had otherwise. [00:23:02] Mike: And it’s all about, um, I think the thing that, that was a huge point that, that hit me when I was reading it or, you know, I was watching videos or whatever it was, that you’re gonna pay interest no matter what, or, you know, the, the money, the flow aspect. Um, the other is just the, the concept of momentum that, that you have, that you start to build. [00:23:23] When you get that, those, those premiums that are paid in, the deposits that are made, um, obviously people understand that from a. You understand, You understand it from like a long term maybe retirement account investment standpoint, but I think some people fail to understand of all of the things that you’re financing in your life or how all that money’s flowing. [00:23:43] And that could be playing a role in, in the whole infinite banking system, right? It’s kind of like, Right, yeah, I understand why I should start investing early in a retirement account cause it’s gotta compound and all that. But the thing that was that kind of hit with me is like, Oh, but there’s all this other money [00:24:00] flowing that you could be capitalizing on the interest and the momentum, primarily the momentum of all that money, and then that’s compounding even more. Right? [00:24:08] Nate: Right, right. Well, and you know, compounding interest is something that’s very interesting, what everybody wants to achieve compounding. But a few actually know how to achieve it in an uninterrupted environment. [00:24:22] Um, you know, the, this is, this is fresh. I retweeted this yesterday, so it’s a, it is, it’s a fresh tweet, so I just pulled it up. You know, the inconvenient truth of compounding interest. Everyone knows that they want compounding interest on their long term money, but what conveniently gets left out of that conversation is you cannot achieve true compounding inside a 401k as an example, and the explanation for that is you Compounding interest is often referred to the eighth wonder of the world because its ability to create wealth over time. [00:24:56] Compounding interests occurs when the interest earn on an [00:25:00] investment is reinvested, which allows the investment to grow at an exponential rate. Yeah, but compounding interest can only be achieved with a whole life insurance policy because other assets have interrupted growth. Every other market that’s out there has interrupted growth. [00:25:17] Whole life insurance historically doesn’t have interrupted growth, and, and I could go a lot deeper into that. Um, If you’re listening to this, go, go, try to found, go try to find my thread on the inconvenient truth of compounding interest on Twitter. Um, but what often gets missed is people try to compare infinite banking to other investments. [00:25:44] And infinite banking in and of itself is not an investment strategy. It’s a cash flow strategy that creates minimum guarantees for your dollars. to support all the other things that you, you need to do in life simultaneously. The, the [00:26:00] closest comparison that it could be made to a, uh, an investment product would be like a Roth IRA, as an example, and, and if someone is, is funding a Roth IRA, then they’re already thinking long term because they have, uh, settled this idea with themselves that they. [00:26:23] Gonna be using this money 20, 30, 40 years down the road. It’s not money they’re putting in going, Hey, I’m gonna use some of this next week, next month, next year, whatever. So if you can with that same line of thinking, if you can think long term, uh, a Roth IRA gives you tax free growth. Now, that’s not uninterrupted tax free growth because it’s always subject to market conditions and things like that. [00:26:48] Infinite banking gives you tax free, uninterrupted growth. Which is very, very different. And, and that’s one thing that people miss often when they’re trying [00:27:00] to compare these things to one another is it’s hard to say that you can get uninterrupted tax free growth inside of a whole life insurance policy and say it’s not an investment. [00:27:12] It’s really just a savings account on steroids in the grand scheme of things. Yeah. Because investments, uh, carry some sort of. . Well, we can only go back historically to the establishment of whole life insurance and see, I mean these, these mutual insurance companies that we work with, they’ve paid dividends consecutively for a hundred years or more in a, I mean, for a hundred years or more. [00:27:39] Yeah. So you can go all the way back to the Great Depression. Yeah. You can go back through every recession that we’ve experienced and you see how these insurance companies posted profits, and paid dividends to their customers, even when everybody else was saying the world’s, you know, ending, the world’s falling apart. [00:27:58] Mike: So why, why [00:28:00] Nate don’t more people know about this, You know, why is this not more common knowledge? Why is the, the, um, just normal operation to just invest in IRA or 401K and not, you know, why is this not more well. [00:28:17] Nate: So a couple things come to mind. One is, have you ever seen the FedEx logo? Yeah. When I, the, every, every time in my life when I looked at the FedEx logo, all I saw was FedEx. [00:28:36] Mm-hmm. . It wasn’t until somebody actually told me and pointed to it, That there is an arrow inside the E and the X. Yeah. Yeah. And um, unless somebody tells you about that, nine times outta 10, you don’t see it. But it’s been there the entire time and that’s what Nelson saw. It was something that was already there. [00:28:57] It was an established fact. [00:29:00] of how whole life insurance policies were set up and created. And it was simply someone finally seeing it from a different perspective and he saw something that nobody else saw. Now the the example that I’ve used recently that I can kind of came up with is imagine that there’s this disease in the world, okay? [00:29:23] And one guy shows up and says, Hey world, you know this disease that everybody’s struggling with and everybody’s fighting right now. Um, I cured myself and, and I wanna share with you how I cured myself. Now, let me warn you upfront, there’s gonna be a little bit of pain before you get to the healing, but once you get through the pain, you get to experience the healing. [00:29:50] Mm-hmm. , there’s gonna be a group of people that are gonna hear the word pain and go, I. No way. There’s gonna be another group of people who are gonna [00:30:00] ask the question, How much pain? And then there’s gonna be another group of people who say, I don’t even care how much pain, I just wanna be healed. Yeah. And so I, I think that’s what is happening with this movement now because, um, people who have experienced healing with infinite banking, have started telling other people about it now, Nelson Nash wrote the book, Becoming Your Own Banker in 2000. [00:30:25] So it’s over 20 years old now and is just starting to really catch some traction in the last probably five years. Um, whenever we first, whenever we first were introduced to this, Mike Everett, one of our mentors told us, he said, There’s a wave coming and y’all are like at the beginning of it. And, and we’re seeing that now. [00:30:46] I mean, you go on TikTok, you go on, I. Uh, you, you watch enough, uh, reels and eventually, or enough TikTok videos, whatever, eventually you’re gonna come across somebody talking about infinite banking. Now, um, [00:31:00] and the, the part about the pain is what, uh, is what it throws people off because. [00:31:12] they hear the word pain. A lot of people hear the word pain, just like they hear the word whole life insurance. Yeah. And they just immediately check out. But what you find out is if you’re comparing the level of pain that is, that’s really because if I get, if I get a prick on my finger, that’s pain. If somebody cuts my arm off, that’s pain. [00:31:36] it’s about the level of pain that you actually experience. And when we’re talking about whole life insurance, what we tell people is, Hey, are you willing to take two steps back to take 10 steps forward? That’s the pain that you have to experience. [00:31:48] Mike: And that’s the initial that’s funding the system, that’s getting it going. Is that what you’re talking about? Is that the pain? [00:31:53] Nate: Right. Right. That’s why Nelson says you gotta be willing to think long term because you’re not gonna have access to a hundred percent. Of what [00:32:00] you put into it, day one. Mm-hmm. , it’s gonna take a little bit of time to build up. Um, but, but that, that level of pain, when you, when people hear the word pain, they automatically make it bigger than it is, but when you, when you actually explore it and find out, you’re like, Oh, that’s more like a prick on the finger, not my arm being cut off. [00:32:19] Mike: Right, right. No, it’s super fascinating. I think. I appreciate you sharing, Nate, cuz I think it’s, um, it’s definitely something that people need to consider. Right. You know, I mean, it’s kinda like plugging people out outta the matrix to some degree , you know, like, and that’s where I was saying with the. [00:32:39] There’s, it’s not just like one policy and seeing it for a long term investment as a replacement for an ira. It becomes like, how do you finance your car? How could you use it for your car insurance? Like, like, and, and that’s where I go back to that phrase of like, your financing everything in your life. I think that was from the book. [00:32:59] [00:33:00] And you might as well be maximizing the interest on that, right? If you’re just saving it. Because people think the ultimate thing, and I think you did a video on this too, like the ultimate thing is like, Well Nate, that’s great. I’m just gonna pay cash for everything. I’m gonna save up for it, You know, whatever. [00:33:14] It’s like that money, if that’s sitting under your mattress, that’s not, that’s, that’s poor stewardship of that money. You know, you could be maximizing the interest on that and that. It just, it kind of, it goes against, you know, some, some heartfelt beliefs. Like, so why, So it kind of gets us back to the Dave Ramsey, where we started. [00:33:33] Why do you think Dave Ramsey is not on the infinite banking train? Like, talk about that, because a lot of people that probably listen to this, like, are Dave Ramsey believers, right? [00:33:42] Nate: Oh yeah, absolutely. And, and if you’re listening to this and you’re following Dave Ramsey, whether you’re hardcore or not, I, I I’ve been where you are. [00:33:51] I understand how you think I used to defend that guy and what, what actually started shifting my [00:34:00] mind a little bit was, uh, probably around 2016, um, I was in a vehicle riding with someone who was way more successful than I was. He was a business owner, owned real estate, all this other. So he had done very well for himself. [00:34:16] We’re riding in this vehicle. Dave Ramsey comes on the radio and I was like, Oh, you listen to Dave Ramsey too? Yes. That’s cool. I listen to Dave Ramsey and he goes, Yeah, he’s pretty, he’s pretty entertaining. Uh, I don’t really subscribe to everything that, that he, uh, teaches, but he’s pretty entertaining and I just thought this guy. [00:34:36] He’s way more successful to me. Like, why? Why is he saying that? And so I just said, Well, what is it specifically that you disagree with? He said, Well, he doesn’t talk about the fact that there’s good debt and there’s bad debt. Bad debt is what takes money outta your pocket. But good debt is what puts money in your pocket. [00:34:57] He said the, the most successful [00:35:00] people in the world understand how to leverage other people’s money, how to use other people’s money to create value for themselves. And that conversation really started shifting my mind and set me on a journey. And the first book that I read after that conversation was, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. [00:35:17] Which really started shifting my mind in a different direction. And reading Rich Dad Poor Dad is really what prepared me for becoming your own banker. Because if I wouldn’t have had that conversation with that guy, and if I wouldn’t have read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I think I would’ve really struggled with becoming your own banker. [00:35:35] But, uh, being open to this idea that Dave didn’t have it all figured out, uh, set me on this journey. When I read Becoming Your Own Banker, I mean, Rich Dad, Poor Dad kind of opened my eyes a little bit when I read Poor, When I read Becoming Your Own Banker, it was like my eyes are wide open and everybody else is just squinting right now. [00:35:56] Mike: Mm. Yeah. It’s almost like, I wish there [00:36:00] was a debate with like Dave Ramsey, was it? Um, Kawasaki, if you put, if you put Nelson Nash, you know, like all those guys. [00:36:08] Nate: Well, yeah, unfortunately Nelson’s not with us. Um, but uh, a buddy of mine who’s a New York Times bestselling author, I can call him a buddy of mine cuz we text back and forth from time to time. [00:36:20] Um, I’m name driving a little bit. I mean, in my world I’m name dropping a little bit. But, uh, Garrett Gunderson. Uh, is a prominent, prominent name in the infinite banking community. He now, he remarketed his strategy. He calls it cash flow banking, but he pays tribute to Nelson Nash and how you use whole life insurance to structure your life and run it as a cash flow strategy. [00:36:40] So, uh, Garrett Gunderson, if he and Dave Ramsey ever went one on one in a debate, Dave would be destroyed. Yeah. I’m just telling you. I mean, he would be, [00:36:55] Mike: That’d be very entertaining to watch. [00:36:56] Nate: So there’s no, there, there’s no way It would be very entertaining, but there’s no way [00:37:00] that Dave would debate Derek Anderson. [00:37:02] Yeah, I’m just saying. [00:37:03] Mike: That’s great. I’ll have to link him up in the show notes. I’ll have to, Yeah, I’ll look him up too, But that’s really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s just, um, it’s funny, it’s funny how. You talk about like opening your eyes and people get on these trains where it’s like, okay, anything Dave Ramsey says is gospel, right? [00:37:23] And it’s like, well instead let’s take a step back and say like, let’s investigate how some of these other people are doing this and what truths might be in there. Right. Um, and I think that’s what, because I would say, you know, we did Dave Ramsey, you know, when we were first married, paid down some debt and that was good. [00:37:39] And, and it’s like there’s a lot of good things. But as we’ve kind of opened our eyes to a little bit more of some other alternative like investments and strategies that’s about, you know, I was stumbling across, you know, infinite banking and, and um, and it’s just fascinating. That’s why I wanna have you on, you know, I think cuz people need to learn about these other strategies. [00:37:58] Nate: Well, and, and the [00:38:00] answer go a little bit deeper with Dave. Um, so you also have to understand his story and what led him to where he is now. Yeah, because he was over leveraged in real. And got destroyed. He ended up having to file bankruptcy. So Dave’s process going forward was extremely risk averse. Yeah. [00:38:21] I mean, he was all about eliminating debt and, and not putting yourself in that situation again. [00:38:26] Mike: That’s, that’s really good point. Nate though, he, I think in the entrepreneur, um, ecosystem, they would call that kind of survivor bias or something, right? You have these founders that start companies and then, or either. [00:38:40] They had their company fail and then they come out on the side and they, they, they give all this advice that is like, oh, it’s like unquestionable. And they, they operate by these principles and looking back at why, what formed them and say, Oh, that sets context for what they’re saying. Okay. Right. Yeah, I think that’s, that’s a really good point, Nate. [00:39:00] [00:39:00] Nate: And so Dave established or built his baby step system. Um, which I mean, Dave’s a brilliant marketer. I’ll give him that. And, and he is also really good about teaching people discipline. So those are the things that I will definitely say positive about. Dave is he’s a great marketer and he’s great about teaching people discipline. [00:39:19] Um, I’d never, I’d never attacked Dave in any way. Uh, but he put out a video on YouTube and you know what? I don’t mind encouraging people to go. The, his video on YouTube is called Infinite Banking is a Scam, Or Why Infinite Banking is a Scam. Yeah. And I’ll tell you right now, he says things in that video that are just, they’re inaccurate. [00:39:42] Yeah. And, and I don’t know why. Um, I don’t know if it’s ignorance. I don’t, I wouldn’t think it would be based on ignorance because of how long he’s been in the financial space. But, uh, unfortunately there’s some things in there that are just inaccurate. So go watch that [00:40:00] video. I don’t. Um, because if you ever want to have a conversation with me about it, and I can tell you exactly why the things he said were in incorrect. [00:40:08] So anyways, I believe that he put that video out last year because infinite baking is starting to gain so much traction. He finally had to make a definitive statement about it. Yeah. Um, because he recognized the fact that it was hurting, it, it was either hurting his business or it was gonna hurt his business because, Information is much more readily available than it was when he started 35 years ago, right when he started 30, 35 years ago. [00:40:37] People didn’t have access to this information the way they do now. Right now you can do enough Google searches, enough YouTube searches, and you can find out very quickly, uh, you know what’s what. Yeah, [00:40:51] Mike: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, thanks Nate. Thanks for your time, man. I, you know, I think we’re running up on time here, but, um, where can people find you, um, Twitter, you know, your [00:41:00] website, you know, where, what are some of the places you can find you on the internet? [00:41:03] Nate: Uh, so the easiest way to connect with me is probably through Twitter. Um, that’s probably my biggest social media platform. Uh, my handle is @ChroniclesNate. Um, I used to be Chronicles of Nate on Twitter and, uh, not long ago, switched over. And so I’m Nate, the infinite banking coach. Okay, now, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. [00:41:25] Mike: All right. [00:41:25] Nate: So that should, that should be some evergreen, uh, stuff that you can, you can find me pretty easily that way. Um, and then also our Instagram channel that me and Brandon run together. Uh, my business partner, that’s ULC Money, our company’s Unlimited Life Concepts. So ULC for short, uh, ulc money on Instagram. [00:41:45] and then our website is unlimitedlifeconcepts.com. Uh, you can find us there as well. Uh, we have an educational course that we created for anybody who wants to really deep dive into the concept, and just to kind of give you a little bit of an idea of what you get [00:42:00] with that. So it’s uh, some, some videos that we created that walk you through, uh, sort of an introduction of the concept and go through some examples and things like that. [00:42:09] Um, you also get a physical copy of Nelson Nash’s book, Becoming Your Own Banker. So we ship those books out all over the country and then you also get access to us, You get access to our team, uh, you know, their calendar. Potentially my calendar and you can connect with us one on one and actually start working with an infinite banking coach to develop or create a custom strategy for you so that you could, you get to see hypothetically what this would look like if you even decided to move forward and apply it in your life. [00:42:43] Um, so that we have some proprietary software we use where we get to actually lay those examples out for people and they get to. If I decided to do this, what it would look like. Yeah. And if uh, if you see the value in all that and you wanna work with us, then we’re happy to come [00:43:00] alongside you as your coaches, as well as your agents and write the policy and get it set up for you. [00:43:04] Mike: That’s awesome. Thanks man. Yeah, I’ll link, I’ll link all your social stuff up and your website in the show notes so we can get a hold of you. So thanks for being on man, Brother. I appreciate you. [00:43:14] Nate: I appreciate you having me. [00:43:16] Mike: Thank you for listening to the 2 Cent Dad podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, Please share it with another dad who you think would benefit. 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