Dan Martell – From Rehab to Rockstar of SaaS

From kite boarding to board meetings, there seems to be no activity that Dan Martell won’t do with his kids. Multiple time entrepreneur and celebrity of SAAS, Dan shares his entrepreneurial journey (spoiler: it doesn’t start out easy) and some of the many ways his kids are his world and his wife is his best friend. Where you can find Dan:

• Twitter
• Instagram
• danmartell.com

Shownotes (Content is summarized and paraphrased. Timestamps are approximate.) Mike Sudyk:
Dan Martell,
– Multiple entrepreneur
– Multiple exits
– Celebrity of SAAS 1:00 Mike Sudyk:
You’re married with two kids Dan Martell:
– Yes six and seven. They’re my world and my wife is my best friend.
– We live a crazy life MS:
If you follow Dan on instagram you’ll know his kids do everything with him. DM:
– Board meetings
– Kite boarding
– Car racing
– 100 flights at this point in there life
– Multiple schools, because we travel a lot 2:00 MS:
How did you arrive at that? Tell me about your upbringing. On your website you list all your failures instead of pounding your chest about your successes… DM:
– Yeah I call that success theater, that’s just not me.
– I’m an open book, and I’m a product of a ton of incredible people who support me.
– At 17 I found myself high and drunk driving a stolen car, trying to get away from the police, and with a gun sitting next to me. If the police caught me I was going to pull the gun so that they’d shoot me. They caught up with me, but the gun got stuck in my bag. They pulled me from the car. I woke up sober in a jail cell wondering what my life was going to look like.
– Served 5-6 months. Did rehab. Spent 11 months in a 6 month program. Spent a lot of time working on myself, and my values, and learning to love myself and having any level of self worth. It saved my life.
– At rehab I discovered JAVA.
– I got fascinated with computers. Computers became my addiction, and entrepreneurship my personal development program.
– I’ve built 5 businesses since then.
– It’s been a slow change.
– For 15 years I didn’t tell a soul what I had gone through as a kid. I did a talk about the entrepreneurial journey, and started with that story. It was the most amazing experience after to have people I knew come up to me and share their thing. Afterwards I thought, I want that openness with everybody. 7:00 MS:
I’ve heard your story a few places. My question is, the journey you went on…a lot of entrepreneur dads feel like they’re stretched in a million directions and feel like they’re hitting a breaking point. It’s not ever bad enough where they make a drastic change. What are some things, having gone through that journey, what are the fundamental things you have to change to get out of the valley? DM:
– There’s different things at different stages.
– When I was 28 I came home one day, and my fiancé at the time broke up with me because I was working too much in the name of success for her. But she never asked me for any of that.
– Your kids and your wife never asked you to kill yourself working.
– Here was my problem: if I’m so good in business, how am I so stupid in relationships?
– So I asked myself, “Who do I need to become to achieve the next level of outcome?”
– I mapped out who would be the perfect person for me, and what kind of person would attract that quality.
– The process of being successful can apply to any aspect of your life.
– I do quarterly board meetings with each of my boys, an idea I got from my buddy Jim in The Family Board Meeting.
– Me and my wife do quarterly retreats where we discuss goals.
– Me and my wife do a weekly meeting where we score ourselves on 5 different dimensions, and if we don’t do well enough we need to reevaluate.
– It’s all the same as a business.
– Do you ever run into scenarios where you’ve got something to talk to your wife about, and there’s never a good time and it’s going to piss her off? We have a time and place for that now.
– These times help us reconnect. 17:00

• We have a playbook for our family.
• We have people who support us, and we have processes for when we go on vacation, or starting at a new school.

18:00 MS:
What do you think the processes are for that? For some reason we don’t bring business processes into our marriage. DM:
– I think there’s a belief that it shouldn’t be so hard. If I need to schedule a weekly meeting with my spouse it means something is wrong…
– You need to build habits. Being an athlete, being in a marriage.
– If you want to have a life of mediocrity, fine, if you want to see if there’s another level, then go there.
– I coach ambitious entrepreneurs, and there’s this problem they often have where they’re growing and their partner is not.
– As you climb the mountain you’re going to want to pull your partner with you, but they may not be there yet. You’re going to suffocate the relationship if you try to pull them up. They’ll feel inadequate. Instead of pulling them, support them.
– It’s just the discipline of saying one night a quarter, we’re going to turn off our phones and spend time together.
– People throw up a resource complaint issue, but you can scale anything back to make it work. 22:00 MS:
We do a family night once a week, and we keep it religiously. It’s not rocket science. DM:
– I’m not a fan of holidays or the world’s rhythm for life. I am a fan of rituals. Let’s make it our own.
– When the kid turns 13, what’s the adventure I bring them on that signals the transition from boyhood to manhood?
– How can I be the best father out there? MS:
We did a ten-year-old trip with my dad. It wasn’t rocket science, it was a Sudyk thing. DM:
– That’s so cool. There’s an opportunity to change…my dad is one of my best friends today. I put my parents through shit. It wasn’t easy, but no pressure no diamonds. I wouldn’t change anything. MS:
But you being around, how are you not spoiling your kids? DM
– LeBron James says, “I don’t want the best for my kids, I want the best from my kids.”
– We don’t buy our kids toys. They earn it.
– I would change some things, like the verbal and emotional abuse I received growing up.
– I believe that chaos shapes us. Obstacle is the way. I was worried that my kids would grow up soft.
– If you let the world interact on your child, there’s enough chaos.
– When your kid is old enough to learn how to zip their jacket and tie their shoe, you are never doing that for them ever again. My kids eat their meals and clean up their plates.
– I’m not here to be their best friend. I’m here to be an example of what it means to be a great human being. 30:00
– What does it mean to be a Martell…they’ve been hearing me ask that question since they were two.
– We do hard things, we have a growth mindset, we give to others, we are always kind…
– In these moments of challenges, I just say what does it mean to be a Martell, and I don’t have to tell them what to do next.
– Every person is going to have their issues, I would just hope that my approach doesn’t create too many of those. I’m trying to give them the tools to know that when life gets hard, get around the people who support you. 32:00 MS:
The family identity thing is huge. Like core values within the professional world. But beyond that their identity is shaped by the world, which doesn’t have their best interest in mind. The concept of identity is huge even as an adult. DM
– I coach ambitious high performing guys. We ask, what kind of person would achieve the results they want. Once we do that, their morning mantra is I am ________.” Your outward ambition has to start in your mind.
– That’s why I love CrossFit. If you compete everyday, you’re an athlete. If you can stick with it, it has incredible impact on your life.
– People come to me because stye built big companies, but they know they’re not the best leader. They’re either going to have their team quit, or they’ll be fired by the board.
– Even Steve Jobs got kicked out. He changed his approach, and came back.
– It’s like, a vegan doesn’t need willpower to not eat meat everyday. Because they’re vegan. It’s identity.
– You create an alter ego to get a result, and one day you wake up and that’s just who you are.
– I’m not going to be the same person a year from now as I was today. I’m not the same guy I was a year ago. I’m not the same guy I was at 17.
– If you believe that your IQ is fixed, that’s just not true.
– It’s not faking it, you just have to wait for the world to catch up to who you believe you are. 39:00 MS:
And it all stems from identity and identifying where you want to go. DM:
– Your history does not predict your future. Which is great news.
– When I was 34, it occurred to me that in the previous 10 years I became a millionaire, exited the business, invested in 32 companies, built 2 venture backed companies, and exited those.
– At 24 I never would have believed that would happen. 42:00 MS:
You wouldn’t have dreamed when you were 24, but what set you off? DM:
– It was the growth mindset, and hundreds of other things.
– Once your belief system expands, you can’t contract.
– We live in the middle of nowhere Canada, but I can be here and still work on billion dollar ideas.
– Everybody out in this town think I’m weird because I’m intense. They’re uncomfortable with me because they know my expectations for myself are so high, but I don’t judge them. There’s no judgement there.
– You can be both ambitious and empathetic, and have big dreams.

Keywords:

• Fatherhood
• Quarterly retreats
• Entrepreneurial journey
• Ambition
• Empathy
• Family Values
• Identity
• Goals
• Family night
• Growing up years
• Travel with young kids
• Marriage, counseling

Full Transcript below (some typos may exist…) [00:00:00] Mike: [00:00:00] Welcome to the two set dad podcast, where we interview dads to discuss their journeys of intentional fatherhood while doing work they care about and living a life of purpose. I’m your host, Mike Sudyk, Dan Martell on the podcast. Multiple successful entrepreneur, multiple exits. he’s pretty well known celebrity in the SAS space, but probably if you’re outside of the SAS space, maybe not so much, I don’t mean to crush your ego too much there, but  Dan: [00:00:33] dude, even the fact that use the word celebrity, I’m like, Ooh, dude, nobody knows me. and that’s totally fine, man. I love, the ones that do, I try to add as much value and every once in a while I get to make some new friends.  Mike: [00:00:45] Yeah. Yeah. And so you, and you’re married with two kids. So how old are your boys? I forget.  Dan: [00:00:49] they’re almost six and seven. Okay. They’re Irish twins, 11 months apart, max and Noah. and they are my world. They’re the coolest things I’ve ever created. and [00:01:00] my wife is my best friend and, yeah, we live a pretty crazy life. It doesn’t stop.  Mike: [00:01:06] if you find hello, Dan Martell on Instagram you’ll know that his kids pretty much do everything with him. To go into CrossFit too. You got your like driving race, cars or skiing. And it’s they’re the kids. It’s crazy.  Dan: [00:01:18] There’s no limit. As long as his mom doesn’t jump in. They’ve been to board meetings, they’ve been a kiteboarding. They’ve been, asphalt racing, rally car racing. they’ve probably been on a hundred flights at this point in their life. Yeah, we did a lot of multiple schools cause we travel a lot and we put them in like private schools in different areas. They’re like the coolest little dudes, yeah, I’m really proud of the little men they’re becoming.  Mike: [00:01:47] how did you, I think that’s awesome. Like I think just the fact that you do that in the fact that you share that too and show other, I’m sure a lot of founders follow you on different social channels. So they’re seeing that. And I think that’s a, that’s an awesome thing to model. [00:02:00] How did you arrive at that? tell me about like your upbringing. I think a lot of people maybe know you from your successes. I was actually checking out Dan martell.com and you have the about me and you’re like, failure one failure to failure three. And then you’re like, and this is how I succeeded and I can help them. So I thought that was cool how you did that. Cause it wasn’t all just like pounding your chest right up front.  Dan: [00:02:19] Yeah. I called people to do that success theater. and that’s just not me. I’m a. I’m an open book. And I realized that I’m a product of a ton of incredible people showed up in my life and have supported me and continue to do Mike, my short story is, at 17 I’ve found myself, high and drunk driving a stolen car and trying to get away from the police. And I had a gun and a handbag sit next to me because I said, If the police ever got me, I was just going to pull the gun and let them do their job and take my life. And, in that pursuit I was trying to get away. I ended up smashing into the side of a house, and kept pulling on the handgun [00:03:00] and it got stuck in the Bag. And, yeah, I kept pulling and eventually the door is open and the police grabbed me and my feet didn’t even touch the ground and threw me in the back of the cop car. And. I woke up sober the next morning in a jail cell, wondering what my life was gonna look like. And I ended up, I’d been in jail prior to that point. I ended up getting sentenced to about a year and a half total five, six months in our facility. tried to, do whatever rehab I could in that program. I had a weird program, but I ended up getting re released to a rehab center called Portage and. I ended up spending 11 months in what’s normally a six month program. Just really working on myself about, my feelings, my values, and my belief systems, the story I was telling myself, rebuilding the relationship with my family and a lot of people that I’ve heard up to that point and really just learning to love myself and having even any level of self worth. and it really, it saved my life. And at the end of that program, I was helping Rick out. One of the [00:04:00] maintenance guys clean out a cabin cause it was an old church camp. And I discovered in one of the rooms, there was a 46 computer with this old book on Java programming, sitting next to it. And I opened up the book thinking that it was a Java programming, computer programming. I was just like, wow, this must be like, complicated. And I read the first chapter in it. It read like English, if this, then that I was just like, tap, like the computer out command prompt, tapped in the first chapter. And dude, I got the computer to say, hello world. And I thought I was a genius. I literally thought, Oh my gosh, I’ve never touched a computer. I just made this thing talk, turns out I was totally wrong. But, I got fascinated with computers. if anything, I have an addictive personality for sure. So I don’t play video games. I don’t gamble. I don’t drink, I don’t do drugs since then for obvious reasons. But, what ended up happening is computers and programming became, my addiction and, entrepreneurship, the ultimate personal development [00:05:00] program. So shortly after I discovered this little thing called the internet, it turned out to be a big deal. And, since then I’ve just been privileged, built five companies that are scaled and exit did the last three and raised venture capital for the last two. And, along that journey had the privilege to invest in. 38 tech companies like Intercom and Unbounce and Hootsuite and, and just live a totally different life than the one I grew up with. And it wasn’t like this dramatic, like overnight, it was literally just a slow, progressive work, the slight edge, the compound effect, kinda, the 1% better every day. Approach to life and it’s why I am today. So it’s still shapes a big part of my life. I still, ever since I got out I every three, four, six months, I go visit Portage, talked to the kids. I run a nonprofit program working with at risk youth. and honestly for 15 years, I didn’t tell a soul about what I went through as a kid. So it was only about five years ago. I, I was asked [00:06:00] to speak at a friend’s event and there was a $28,000, $25,000. Prize for the best talk. And I knew I wasn’t going to win talking about growth hacking. So I did a talk about the entrepreneurial journey of, like growth, personal growth. And I started with that story and, Tim Ferriss was in the room, Mark echo from echo, clothing and a bunch of guys that I respected. And after I got off stage, it was just like the most. Amazing experience to have them come up and just share with me their thing. Yeah. and it is what it is. It’s like when you’re open with other people, then you give them permission to be open with you. And I just thought to myself, I want that with everybody. I want that with you, Mike. I want that with everybody listening that I want people to know me for who I am and then that way we can talk about anything really. So that’s my story, man.  Mike: [00:06:54] Wow. No, that’s a heck of a story. And I had heard that like a few places. I [00:07:00] think I had, it’s not like you talk about it every single time in all your talks. So it’s I’d heard that. I’m like,  Dan: [00:07:06] yes, that’s true.  Mike: [00:07:06] That’s true. That’s true. so my question with that is, The journey, I assume you went on because I have never been on like that, God like hit bottom like that before, but a lot of like entrepreneurs, especially an entrepreneurial dads, like they’re grinding there, they got a company around, they feel like they’re stretched in a million different directions. They’re working like tons of hours. And they reached many breaking points where they’re just like, they question everything. They don’t know, they struggle with self-talk, which is probably what, a lot of the stuff that you went through with the rehab and the story you tell yourself, but it’s not bad enough where they ever make, maybe make a drastic change. You know what I mean? And I feel like maybe sometimes I get into that cycle and you’re kinda then just ebb and flow around somewhat of mediocrity or you never make these kind of. Fundamental changes that you need to make. And so that being said, what are some things that, [00:08:00] having gone through that journey that maybe you see, or in talking to founders and talking to people that have gone, had many Valley moments that, you can speak to saying, Hey, I’ve been to the deepest, the lowest of low, and these are the fundamental things I had to change and how I. Talked about myself, how I viewed myself and then also, repairing the damage of, other relationships, because those are so key. you talked about your wife and your kids, that they are a motivation for you. They are, people that support you. Yeah, exactly.  Dan: [00:08:29] yeah, here’s what I’ve learned, Mike, is that there’s like different things at different stages, right? So one of the pivotal moments that really made me lean into, just becoming a better person to be in a relationship with was, when I was 28, I came home one day and my fiance at the time. So I was engaged, was not my current wife, drop the ring on the table and totally broke down and said, I can’t do this anymore. And walked out the door. Cause I was working a hundred hours a week. I was traveling 300 days a year or 250 [00:09:00] days a year and all in all. And this is the sad part, all in the name of success for her, for our future and turns out this is what I learned that she never asked me for it. So I think that’s just a big realization that people need to have about. them working hard or trying to kill it or whatever it is, it’s like your kids and your wife or your people that you, that love. You never asked you for any of that. that’s self-inflicted, that is a bullshit story. You tell yourself that just isn’t true. And so that was like, that was it. Now I didn’t realize that at the moment I had to go on my own journey to figure that out in regards to reading, dude, I read men are from Mars. I read everything. I was just like, okay, here was my problem. Like. How am I? because I’m really good in business. if I have one skill it’s scaling companies really fast. Okay. And it’s cool. Cause I can now at this point, my life I have, and currently I coach over 125, the fastest growing SAS founders in the world. I did [00:10:00] 1300 clarity calls and a two and a half year period. I’ve spoken all over the world. I’ve talked with tens of thousands of startups. It’s not an exaggeration, it’s just a numbers game. What I’ve, I don’t even know where I was going with that. Oh, so I was saying this I’m really good in business, but how am I so good at business? And so stupid and shitty at relationships?  Mike: [00:10:19] I can’t relate to that at all.  Dan: [00:10:20] Yeah. Like it’s not that I’m not intelligent. It’s not that I can, don’t understand how to solve problems. But for some reason when it came to that side, I was blind. So I went on a journey, man probably lasted Three years of just saying like this question, I’ve always asked myself in business, which is who do I need to become? So in business, I always thought what’s the next level. That’s why I say there’s levels to this. It’s like for me to get to this next level of outcome, it’s the question of who do I need to become to achieve that? Cause the person that I am today, can’t be the person that achieves this. Cause if it was and I’d be there already. So the question I was asking myself is. First thing I did was just like map out, like who would be the perfect [00:11:00] person or the perfect person for me. And once I was clear on that, then I asked, I had to be honest with myself, what kind of person would attract that quality? Cause that’s the thing is if you need to, like people. People want to get into, they want, they want, Mark Cuban as a friend, they want bill Gates as a friend. They want, They want these two it’s you wouldn’t even be a friend with yourself, so why would those people want to be, there’s these like levels I think people don’t even reflect on. I don’t think it’s answering your question, Mike. It’s just the idea of, A, the struggle you’re going through the people that love you the most never asked you for B the process of being successful. If you’ve ever figured that out can apply to any aspect of your life. And, when the students it’s ready, the teacher will appear. And I just went on that journey and essentially what I’ve learned personally, what works great for me is I apply a lot of the business principles that I do for running great companies. to my life and to my marriage and to my relationship with my kids. So for example, and we can dive in wherever you want. I do quarterly board meetings with each of my [00:12:00] boys, which meet. And this is a book. I got an idea I got from the family board meetings by, my buddy, Jim. And, so read the book. It takes you a little an hour and 20 minutes, so it’s just a great structured habit. and so every quarter me and my boys take, half a day and we do what they want is a whole structure to what that day looks like. And you turn your phone off and you really just create space for you and your child. because for a lot of kids, especially at three kids, not often you’re alone, one-on-one with any one individual kid. So this just creates a good cadence. And this is like in my calendar at the beginning of the year. And it doesn’t move. My assistant knows, like nobody’s more important than that day and that, and the kids are nowadays, I’ve been doing with them since they were two, they’re five and six and they’re like, when’s our next board meeting. I want to do this. And I want to do that. So there’s that we do, actually every Friday. So today we did a Martell clan meeting, me and my wife. So it’s like a weekly sync, a weekly team meeting for us to sync up. we do a lot of cool stuff in that meeting, but one of them is we score ourselves on four different dimensions. out of [00:13:00] five. So we get a score at a 20 and rules is if we don’t get a 16 or more, we need to stop and reset of the way we’re approaching our lives. Mike: [00:13:07] is that inside of the family board meeting  Dan: [00:13:09] too? Sorry,  Mike: [00:13:11] is that insight? Is that practice inside of the family board meeting too, doing that weekly  Dan: [00:13:14] single that’s a 30 minute meeting every week. So the board meeting the family, the kid, the quarterly board meeting, that’s where the kids, my wife and I do quarterly retreats, which is three to four days disconnected, no cell phones for her. And I had to reset. And then we do the family meetings. Gotcha. Essentially, it’s the same things you would do in your business. So like annual where we do our work, that’s planning the next year, right? It’s all the big rocks. It’s the birthdays, it’s the family commitments. It’s the personal and professional goals we want to hit. And then the week is really just like a cadence. And that score is almost like, if it’s business, it’s revenue and profit and it’s just a score and just saying like, how am I tracking week over week? We have. Family values that we go over and just ask [00:14:00] ourselves how we’re doing on those family values. We score that. So we have a tracking system for that. we review our travel schedule, so there’s never discussions. We review issues that have been put on the agenda. So throughout the week, and it’s just really cool because like you ever run into scenarios where you have something you want to talk to your wife about and you know that there’s not going to be a good time. And bringing it up out of context is probably going to piss them off. That doesn’t happen anymore. Like literally it’s on the discussion. So when we sit down, that’s why we’re sitting down is to discuss those things. So if I feel, for example, I’m not saying she does this, but let’s say she screams at the kids a little too much sometimes. Cause she’s frustrated. that goes on the list. And there’s a discussion and it’s out of context of the moment because that’s probably not the right time to have that conversation. And if she feels like I’m not picking up after myself, she can add it on the list and we have that conversation. So yeah, we do that. We do the quarterly couples retreat. and it’s just a really great way. Cause I think a lot of relationships grow apart because they don’t have a heartbeat to reconnect, they don’t [00:15:00] realize how bad they’d been behaving or how bad it’s gotten to the other person. Because maybe the person’s never told them, but if you know that, you got a six this week and an eight next week, all of a sudden you got a two, you might go crap. I don’t want that. So  Mike: [00:15:14] that book is family board meeting that  Dan: [00:15:16] day and board meeting is just for the kids doing the quarterly. All my kids, the Martell, the plan meeting is something we made on.  Mike: [00:15:23] Gotcha. Now that I think that’s good advice.  Dan: [00:15:26] Same thing. Thanks. Yeah, no, we just keep adding stuff to our kind of a, we have a playbook for our family. Yeah. it’s pretty cool.  Mike: [00:15:34] That is really cool.  Dan: [00:15:36] Yeah, the playbook’s great. Cause we’re blessed, man. We have people that support us in our lives and a house manager. And so like we just put everything in there and. when we go to San Diego in the winter months, we have a process for getting the house ready and finding schools. And it’s just again, I’m just, I’m a systems guy. I’m a programmer, I’m a nerd. So it’s it just makes sense. Yeah. And it just turns out to just make it really easy for us to continue to [00:16:00] do cool stuff. Like we’re both entrepreneurs, But we both care deeply being great parents and great for each other and yeah. Being extremely healthy and all that fun stuff. what do you think?  Mike: [00:16:10] the barriers are to that because to me, I can think about that and I can say, yes, you look at bad businesses. They’re not processed driven. They’re sporadic, they’re reactionary. And then you look at a well run business and they’ve adopted these same principles. Dan: [00:16:23] But  Mike: [00:16:23] like you said, not everyone. For some reason, we don’t bring those same things into our marriages and how we raise our kids. But some people aren’t gear aren’t wired that way. And maybe that’s the pushback, but. Why do you, what do you think is the reason why people don’t embrace those more? and why is there not a sense of intentionality around that in your opinion? Dan: [00:16:44] Because there’s this belief that it shouldn’t be that hard. it’s not to be, it’s not supposed to be so hard. Why? If I need to schedule a meeting every week to talk about issues with my husband and there’s something wrong with us  Mike: [00:16:56] and they don’t let the movies, Dan, they don’t do these systems things in the movies. Yeah.  [00:17:00] Dan: [00:17:01] Yeah, I think like the end of the day, here’s what I’ve learned. It doesn’t matter what discipline we’re trying to attack. If you want to get better, you got to measure, you have to build habits and you got to stay consistent with those habits. And it doesn’t matter what you want to do from being a triathlete to running and scaling company, to being in an Epic, incredible relationship. And it’s just a decision of what do they want out of their life if they want mediocracy, great. Keep doing what you’re doing. If you want to see if there’s another level, then go there. I think the biggest challenge, especially for the cause I coach really ambitious high performing entrepreneurs. they have a challenge where, and this is probably the biggest challenge for entrepreneurs is where they’re growing in their partner. Isn’t right where they’re on this personal development train and their partner’s not, and in those moments, it’s really tough. and I have a friend named Philip McKernan. Who is an amazing individual that I first met at a couples retreat, where he was facilitating and leading [00:18:00] it. And he had this whole concept of as you climb the mountain, you’re gonna want to pull your partner with you. Cause you’re learning all this cool stuff and you’re excited, but they’re just not there yet. they may not be on that train. And you’re really gonna suffocate the relationship. If you like, try to squeeze them and pull them up. Because at some point, they’re going to feel like they’re inadequate. They’re going to feel like everything they do isn’t enough. They’re going to feel like you’re getting away from them. And what Philip argues that I really took away from that conversation was instead of pulling, why don’t you support them? And because in supporting them. you’re not reacting, you’re creating space, but they at least know that you’re there when they’re ready. And I think that’s a beautiful way to think about it. Cause light gets in when we do that, it doesn’t get in when we do it. Yeah. Right where we squeeze our hand together. Yeah. that’s probably the number one thing stopping people is just the pushback from a partner. If somebody listening to go, I want to do that. Or like people say to us all [00:19:00] the times like, Oh, must be nice to do quarterly retreats for four days and go all these beautiful places. And I’m like, if you think it’s the location that matters, you’re totally right. Missing the point. If you’re, and if you think it’s the length of the time, you’re missing it as well. It’s literally the discipline of saying one night, a quarter, four nights a year. We’re going to turn off our phones in the morning and we’re going to take time for ourselves. And we’re going to work on things that we think are interesting. We’re going to review stuff. We’re going to read books, we’re going to hang out. We’re going to go for walks in nature, whatever it is, and just be together the way it used to be before the kids showed up so that you can at least get back to that place, every once in a while. So that’s the other thing. I just think people throw up a resource constraint issue and it’s just not true. We can, you can scale anything back. to make it work.  Mike: [00:19:53] Yeah, no, that’s absolutely true. I think  Dan: [00:19:55] you  Mike: [00:19:55] just have to be intentional about it and say, we’re going to do that. we’ve even found like we do a [00:20:00] family night once a week and it’s pretty sacred night, and we just say, sometimes we’re going to go do something really fun. Those are just going to get a movie and just have the kids pick out their favorite snack and we’re gonna do that, but we’re going to keep  Dan: [00:20:10] that  Mike: [00:20:11] religiously. And if we have to move it, we’re not going to cancel it, And, we found that to be just extremely powerful and it’s That’s not rocket science, it’s  Dan: [00:20:18] you know what I think Mike Good. I’ve always found fascinating is I’m not, for some reason, I’m not a fan of holidays. I’m not a fan. I’m not a fan of the world’s rhythm for life. Okay. What I am a fan of is rituals and habits. So what, so really what I’m arguing for more with my family is let’s do our version of stuff. Let’s decide what our heartbeat, our rhythm, our dates are, and let’s create our own. And let’s make that the Martell way, not the, because it’s been done this way, the world way. I think that’s a really fascinating kind of mindset thing that I try to, I work with my boys on that is, I remember reading this story about, a woman [00:21:00] who was baking and she was looking, she was cooking some bread and that when she, after she was done cooking it, she cut off the ends of the bread. And somebody asks was like, why’d you cut off the ends of the bread, throw it away. She said, my mom always did that. And then she’s why did your mom do it so that I don’t know. And that person call up. Her mom said, Hey, I was just talking to Julie. And she said, she, you always did this. Why’d you do that? Oh, we only did that. Cause we’re. We’re in our house, the stove wasn’t big enough to fit the whole loaf. So we had to cut the ends off. I just think a lot of stuff like that exists, that we have an opportunity to question and to redesign. And to me, I love what you just said on that, the ritual, because that’s your ritual for your family. And I think there’s more right. Like I’m even thinking about what’s the, when the kids turn 13, What’s the adventure. I bring them on that kind of signals the transition from boyhood to manhood. And, is this something that I could perpetuate with their children in the future generations? Cause that’s how it used to be. And I think [00:22:00] that’s been lost. So I don’t know. I just have a lot of fun, thinking about how can I be the best father out there. Yeah. Yeah, we did  Mike: [00:22:08] that when it was a 10 year old trip, you took, any I’m one of four, but I have two sisters and a brother and we just went on it with your dad, like with my dad. And it was like a cool thing. And it was like, you went away for a weekend. Like we visited, we were in Dallas at the time and visited my aunt in Atlanta. You and I was like, it was super cool, but like I saw everyone, I was the youngest of four, so I saw everyone do it. And it’s can’t wait for my 10 year old trip. like this is going to be sweet, but it’s just it wasn’t, like I said, it’s not like rocket science. But it was like a FA it was a Sudek thing, it was like, that’s just, we did it. So like my wife, they didn’t ever had a 10 year old trip. They had other things, but I’m like, that was such a fundamental thing for me, but that was just something they came up with. I guess you don’t know where they came up with it from  Dan: [00:22:46] isn’t that cool? Like it’s even like, where’d that come up from? And yeah, I just think that’s. There’s an opportunity to change, like in that. And back to like my environment growing up, my dad is one of my best friends today. So yes, [00:23:00] he made the best decision. We were four as well. I’m the second oldest. Like the shit I put my parents through is just on another level. And, like I don’t, I never was upset about any of that. my mom struggled with alcoholism, but she grew up in a family with two parents who were alcoholics and she was adopted. So she had, she didn’t have any tools. She didn’t have her. She didn’t even know what the word personal development was. So it’s like the end of the day, I feel super blessed, Cause I’ve got a lot of cool beliefs. Like no pressure, no diamonds. I’m my challenges are my opportunities today. Like I just believe I’m who I am today and I’m driven because of all the things I went through. And I wouldn’t get rid of that for the world. I’m a, I’m an awesome dad today because my dad didn’t show up. Maybe the way I thought he should have. I want to create a better future for my kids. I wouldn’t take that away. I wouldn’t change anything.  Mike: [00:23:48] But what does that do for your kids? Are they growing up with, too? you’re too involved and that’s, obviously I’m not, like what is, what are the, what is that going to be like for them? obviously it sounds like you guys are taking steps not to do that, [00:24:00] but it’s like classic story, rags to riches and then the next generation spoiled. Cause they’re all loaded  Dan: [00:24:05] on a DSM. So that’s entitlement. So here’s what I believe. And I heard this from LeBron James of all people. I want the best for my kids. I want the best from my kid. and I took that to heart cause I, it would be hilarious and I think my wife should do this. the kids don’t get toys. Like we don’t buy them anything. They’ve had to buy their own stuff since they were young. Like they have an allowance, they make money. They, they do chores. Like it’s literally. I think the thing, what I changed that won’t be repeated with the abuse, the verbal and emotional abuse. Cause I don’t drink and I don’t want to introduce that to them. That uncertainty of how’s your parent gonna react today? The, the emotional rollercoaster that I grew up with. Cause that was just a reality of my household. and then for a long time I was concerned, Mike, of I truly believe that chaos shapes us. and that sometimes [00:25:00] L like, we B you know, obstacle is the way, to quote Ryan holiday. I think we’re not supposed to, life’s not supposed to be easy, and we shouldn’t hope that it is. So I was worried that my kids were going to grow up soft, And someday I’m going to have to bring them in the middle of the woods and run away and let them know like that, man. I remember when max is born, I was like, wow, what’s the what’s what is, what environment can I create here? Here’s what I learned. Mike, if you actually just let the words world interacting on your child, there’s enough chaos in itself. So here’s what I mean. When your kid is old enough to learn how to zip his own jacket and tie his own shoe, you will never, ever do that for them ever again ever. And if you did you do, you’re taking that away from them. If you, pick up their toys, if you literally anything, my kids, I don’t do anything. They eat their meal, they clean up their plates. They put it like [00:26:00] there’s a difference between physical ability. The mental ability and then just not doing it. So I just think that, the world’s hard enough. We just got to not protect our kids from all that world. Cause that’s not our job. Our job is not to be their best friend. I believe that I’m not here to be their best friend.  Mike: [00:26:17] Yeah.  Dan: [00:26:17] not at all. I’m here to be an example of what I think it means to be a great human being. My definition could be wrong. Don’t care. And that was it every day, I think about how can I be 1% better? So I’m a little bit more intentional than probably most of the patients  and I think I’ve been doing okay. so things like we have this thing around identity, so yeah. What is a Martell? Me? Okay. This is probably one of my favorite things to do so ever since they were little kids and I got this from my buddy, Todd Herman, he wrote a book called the alter ego. And so he just came out. Best-selling all that stuff. But we’ve been talking about this for a long time. And he’s got two little girls, same age as max. No. And then Charlie’s a couple years younger [00:27:00] and it’s this idea of what does it mean to be a Martel? And they’ve been hearing me ask them that question since they were two, and if you ask them they were here, they would say, it means a lot of stuff. It means that we do hard things that we have a growth mindset that we give to others that have less means that we are always kind. That we do the, there’s all these things. so what’s fun. Is that in these moments of challenges where they’re acting out, or they’re not doing the thing, or they’re giving up too easily, I just say, Hey, what does it mean to be a Martel? And they know, and they tell me and they get right back up and I don’t have to tell them what to do next. Now is that messing with them. They’re going to grow up, being all like, messed up about it, maybe, but here’s the thing. I don’t. I believe that every person is going to have their issues. Everybody could go see a psychologist and say, this person said this to me. And I felt this way when I was younger, this we all have [00:28:00] these emotional scars. It’s what creates our identity. It’s our belief systems is what drives our values. Okay. I would just hope that my approach doesn’t create too many or too deep of those, although I know for sure, at some point my kids are, boys are gonna have daddy issues. and if anything, I’m trying to get, give them the tools and be the example that when life gets hard, get around people that support you don’t allow people to abuse you emotionally, physically, et cetera. you’re a hundred thousand percent accountable for your world. I’m not to like D I don’t and I don’t care if they’re entrepreneurs. I don’t want them to do anything for me. I want them to do a hundred percent what they want to do, but they own a hundred percent outcomes. So I don’t know, man, that’s some guiding principles that I use that are a hundred percent of byproduct of maybe not being exposed to that as a young man, myself and going on the journey of. what are some people’s ideas around family [00:29:00] unit and Parenthood, and which ones resonate with me no different than if I was trying to upgrade my diet. are these people talking about this vegan stuff for plant power, this, and Zevia bass liquids. It’s gotten that. Literally this is like water that tastes like soda. just try it, see if it fits.  Mike: [00:29:17] No, I think that’s, I think that the identity thing is huge because. That is your speed taking that over them saying, this is what a Martell is. And you’re saying, we have these positive attributes, which are like core values probably as the, parallel with the professional world. But the interesting thing is without that, Their identity is shaped by just randomness in the world, around them. Yeah. It’s and they don’t have their best interests in mind. You know what I mean? You’re saying I’m not here to be your best friend, but I have your best interests in mind. I, you’re saying I want you to be the best person you can be and I, and then you want to live out these positive values. And, I think that’s something the whole idea and concept of identity is so huge. Even [00:30:00] as an adult, that’s when you get off base,  Dan: [00:30:02] it’s everything. Yeah. I coach extremely ambitious, high performing guys. One of the first things, when we work through they’re here, they want to go there is asking them who, what kind of person would achieve those results. And once we can get clear on that, then their morning ritual is the mantra of I am. And the thing. And that is, and that’s like daily every day, because I think way before the output and the outcome of your actions materialize out there, it has to start up in here. So if you want to be healthy, you might want to write down every day. I’m an athlete and sit with that because maybe today you’re 50 pounds overweight and you’re going well. I sure don’t feel like I’m an athlete. Good. Do something about it tomorrow, you’re going to write it down and you’re gonna write it down. You’re gonna write it down. That’s why I really like CrossFit, right? CrossFit. Their argument is if you compete every day, which every workout is a [00:31:00] competition. Cause it’s time to measure that. Technically you’re an athlete cause you competed. And that identity is probably a big part of why. If you can stick with it, it has incredible impact on your life. But I know as a coach. That’s the one, that’s one of many tools that I use to really help my clients get results. Especially like I work, typically people come to me because they have built big companies, but they know them selves. They’re not the best leader. They’re a little chaotic, they’re a little aggressive. They’re probably a little rough around the edges and they know that there’s either one of two scenarios there. Good to have their whole team quit on them and they’re gonna have to replace them all, or they’re going to get fired by the board or whatever’s going to happen. And I know that cause you know, when I was in my early twenties, I was kinda like that. And yes, you can do that to a certain level, but even Steve jobs who was notorious for this got kicked out, learned a whole lot of lessons [00:32:00] changed his behavior. And when he came back, everybody would agree that he had changed his approach. You can still be driven. You can still be ambitious. You can still be, all these things, but you also need to balance that out with these other characteristics, which comes down to identity. It’s like when I got sober, one of the mistakes, a lot of people make is counting the dates, I’ve been sober for X amount of days. to me, that tells, that’s, that means that you’re still that person. And I’m not saying that you pretend like you’re not. But I don’t drink, I didn’t quit drinking. I just don’t drink alcohol. So when people ask me that you don’t drink, I said, no, I don’t drink. it’s not a, I quit. I was like, it’s just literally the identity of, I just don’t drink alcohol. No different than if I want to. It’s I don’t eat sugar. And it’s like a vegan doesn’t need to have willpower to not eat meat every day. Yeah. Why? Because there are vegan. Yeah, it’s the same reason why an athlete doesn’t [00:33:00] smoke. Cause it’s just not part of their identity. And I think that’s a really powerful tool that people should really spend more than that’s where the alter ego stuff that Todd talks about. big is crazy powerful around that and like symbols, And totems to activate that alter ego. And the cool part is you essentially leverage the alter ego to become the person who can get the result. And at some point you don’t know when you somehow wake up and realize that’s just who you are. So this is what’s crazy. People hear my story and they can’t even imagine it like Danny, you don’t sound like the kind of guy that would do that stuff. And I go, I’m not today because here’s what I know. The person you’re talking with today is not going to be the same guy in the same beliefs in a year from now. Cause my growth game is strong. I know it is. Cause I’m not the same guy was a year ago and I definitely wasn’t that kid at 17 years old and that’s been a long time gone, right? Yeah. I got diagnosed with severe [00:34:00] ADHD at eight years old. Riddling 30 milligrams sole release for years. Okay. I don’t think I have ADHD anymore. Why. Cause I went through the process of working on it. Like what, how can I self medicate? How can I rewire my mind? What’s the neuro-plasticity right. There’s so much science around this. that’s why, to me, the idea of a growth mindset gets fixed mindset. It’s if you truly believe that your IQ is fixed, I feel bad for you. Cause it’s just not true. It’s just literally not scientifically true. So you’re living with the belief that. Is going to just hold you back. So that to me is the fascinating part of all of this is that identities. Some people are like, I don’t think it’s authentic that you fake it. It’s it’s not that you fake it. It’s just, you got to wait for the external world to catch up to who you believe you are. But people, I used to be more introverted. I used to write code and step till two or three in the morning. I didn’t like talking to people at all today. People would [00:35:00] categorize me as an extreme extrovert. What happened? I realized this is where I want to go. This is where I’m at two failed companies that hurt. I need to probably build a team. It means I’ve got to talk to people. It means I’ve got to learn how to communicate, need to learn how to inspire them. And so they stick around, need to learn all these things, want bigger goals, bigger dreams. And then one day I realized. I love people. I love talking to people. I don’t know. No, I just, I don’t know. Like I just know that there’s just so many examples now. Arguably, I’m still me. I’m still Dan. I would just assume that I’ve just got better. Yeah. Thoughts. I’ve gotten better. I’ve upgraded the operating system in many ways and continue to do Cause I think it’s cool. Like it’s what’s the next challenge? Mike: [00:35:47] and it all stems from identity. It all stems from identifying where you want to go. That’s why I’m hearing you say  Dan: [00:35:53] it all. It comes down to a knowing that where you’re at today is not where you could be. So your history does not [00:36:00] predict your future, right? Your biography is not, your destiny. And that’s exciting because I think a lot of people listen to this, maybe, dealing with some tough times in their business or their relationships or their kids are upset with them or whatever it is. And here’s what I’ve learned. And this is like the coolest thing for me. Cause more so than most people I kind of measure. And I can see like the things. And I remember, and this is not to brag, Mike, it’s just, this is just a fact. And I remember sitting down, it was like, I was 32. 34. I was 34 years old. I’m 39 right now. So the five years ago I was sitting down and it occurred to me in the previous 10 years. Always hear people say that estimate what they can do in one year underestimate. They can do a decade right. In a 10 year period at 24. Okay. So I got clean at 17 two failed companies. And finally at 24, I start my third company hoping it would work 10 years later, I’m looking back. And I became a millionaire at 27. [00:37:00] I exited the business at 28. I invested in 30 at that point, probably 32 companies as an angel investor for them are billion dollar companies. I built two venture backed companies and exited both of those in a 10 year window. So all I’m going to say is. There’s no way. If somebody told me at this point, yeah, 24, I didn’t even have the capacity to dream that big. It wasn’t even in my sphere, dude, spending a week at Richard Branson in Switzerland, having Mark Cuban invest in my company, Travis Kalanick, the CEO of Uber was my first investor in Flowtown and a personal mentor, all that in a 10 year period. So all I’m going to say is, and this was after two failed companies. Like I’m a piece of shit. I really should go get a job. as long as I’m not breaking the law, but my dad’s not too proud of me kind of thing. And, I just think that’s the incredible world we live in. And so that, because I’ve seen that and the cool part is I’ve seen it in my clients. I’ve seen it in a lot of my friends. anything’s possible, [00:38:00] literally anything. If I wanted to be the prime minister of Canada, I could be.  Mike: [00:38:06] Probably  Dan: [00:38:06] don’t want it. However you want me the president. I don’t care. Like people, if you truly want to be, and you’re willing to dedicate your life and do the work, the hard work, right though. Identity.  Mike: [00:38:20] Yeah. So you said you didn’t, you couldn’t have even dreamed that 10 years. Do you know when you were 34 or 24, but then what was it that set you off? Did you didn’t have that one a day? It was just that 1% every day. what.  Dan: [00:38:33] It was the slight edge. It was the compound effect. It’s whatever you want to call it. it was the betterment, it was the growth mindset amplified. It was a ton of what was it? Hundreds of things. But at the core of it was knowing that I get today, I get a chance today to be better than I was yesterday. And if I do that, I grow. And the cool thing about growth is that it’s hard to substrate. It’s hard to come back, Once [00:39:00] your belief system expands, right? It’s heart, you can’t contract, right? So there’s always been step functions of growth. Okay. So I would say some of the step functions would have been, getting my first mentor, huge step functions, hiring my first business coach. Who’s that function, bringing in, an advisor stew, two years in the spirit of huge step function. some key hires, et cetera, moving to San Francisco. Okay. All of a sudden now I’m surrounded by billion dollar people, not million dollar people, billion dollar people. And guess what? My first few friends was guys like Brian, from Airbnb, drew from Dropbox, Travis, from Uber, Jeff from Twilio, you name it, the list goes on. That was my cohort of. Friends in 2008 in San Francisco. So not only did I see them start to do it, I also got to meet some other guys that have got it. And it’s just once your mind is expands to the [00:40:00] possibility and you get exposed to it, then it helps you keep growing. And it comes down to that identity. I grew up in, I live in a small town in Eastern Canada, a hundred thousand people in the middle of nowhere. It’s it’s truly, there’s just nowhere. Nobody would, people are like, why you live there? Why? Cause of family. My two brothers, my whole family lives here. And I wanted, I didn’t when I, after I was building clarity and Renee got pregnant right at the beginning. And I just knew that if I fast forward 20 years and I looked back and I, we raised our family in Santa Francisco. I don’t know if I would have been happy with the way my life looked like at that point. Meaning that, yeah, I had business success, but I didn’t get to hang around with my brothers and my nieces and nephews and have my kids grow up around their kids. And. That’s just not what I wanted. So I said, Hey, let’s move back and I’ll spend a little bit more time on a plane and I’ll try to figure out how to be more efficient and I’ll hire great. People are willing to travel and all this stuff, and I’ll lift a little heavier to make it work. And that was just the decision I made. So all that being said is that like [00:41:00] your belief system is a hundred percent around your environment, but once you expand that, like I can be in Monkton and still work on billion dollar ideas. No problem. Do it every day. Yeah. Funny cause it’s weird, Mike. Yeah. Tell you a little secret. I now come to realize that everybody out there in this town think I’m weird. Mike: [00:41:24] Yeah.  Dan: [00:41:24] Because I’m tense. Cause I don’t talk about bullshit stuff. I don’t want to talk about the weather and I don’t want to talk about news and I want to talk about other people. I want to talk about their ideas and their passions. And if you don’t want to talk to me about that totally fine. I got shit to do. Yeah. So I’d rather be talking to my clients that I coach talking to CEOs that I’m an investor in hanging out with my family. Cause I love them and they love me. And I realized that a lot of them are uncomfortable with me because they know that my expectations of myself are way high. And I’m, I feel like [00:42:00] sometimes they’re probably scared I’m going to call them out on it. But here’s the thing is there’s no judgment. Zero judgment. Aye. I a long time ago, let go of any judgment for somebody else that was more successful or as successful as me because I realized I was them in my past life and I totally can connect to where they’re at. And I just hope that somehow they connect the dots the way I did or, and have people come into their life the way came into my life. that supported that. And it’s not, I don’t, and I never, this is the thing I really get upset when people are like, Oh, they’ll never get, I don’t subscribe to them. Yeah. People said that about my mom. She’ll never change. It’ll always be that way. Don’t agree. I’ll be there. I’ll be there. Like this hand, open support for the rest of my life until she takes her last breath. Yeah. not gonna give up. And I just think that’s how you can be both ambitious and empathetic and still live where he wants to live and still [00:43:00] have big, huge, humongous dreams, be okay with that. Mike: [00:43:05] I think that’s probably a good place to end it, man. I think I want to be sensitive of our time, but, No, I think, thank you so much, Dan. I really appreciate it. Thanks for bringing a ton of value. And, I think there’s, it’s just jam packed full of stuff, and I really think this is going to be, really good for a lot of people here. So it was for me. So if nothing else  Dan: [00:43:22] is good for me, I appreciate it. And you put out some incredible content. I just want to acknowledge you for that. I think that a lot of people have the ideas of, shining the light on certain topics and they don’t pull the trigger and you’ve clearly have, and. I think what you’ve created is a real gift for other fathers that are looking to be more intentional. thanks for doing that and keep it out, man.  Mike: [00:43:43] Yeah. Thank you. So Dan martell.com, we’ll link it all up in the show notes. Thanks Dan. You can find out more about us and sign up to receive updates at  dot com. If you liked what you heard or just want to [00:44:00] say hi, you can shoot me an email at Mike at Tucson, dad.com. Please leave a review on iTunes. If you like the show, it helps us to get the word out to the most people possible. The show is made possible through the support of ECE group international building software teams since 1999.